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Poster: Heckle Date: Oct 1, 2012 6:04am
Forum: etree Subject: Streaming/ bandwidth question

Which takes up more bandwidth - streaming from the embeded player on archive.org or downloading and playing the VBR M3U file in a player like Winamp or Media Player? If there is a difference is it significant?

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or Staffgreenone Date: Oct 1, 2012 9:02am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Streaming/ bandwidth question

The embedded player streams the VBR mp3s, so in my not-so-expert opinion, the difference should be negligible if not nonexistent.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffMonte B Cowboy Date: Oct 1, 2012 8:01am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Streaming/ bandwidth question

imvio (in my village idiot's opinion), the bandwidth difference should be Zero! None, zilch, notta, nothing. My opinion is purely non-technical.

Assume a "given show's fileset" never changes. Assume a given show's fileset will always be streamed correctly. This means it will be streamed the same way every time, regardless of which player is being used on your "computer" or mobile device. If it streams any differently than the correct way, it would then be streaming incorrectly. So, it is either streaming correctly, or it is streaming incorrectly. Different internet connections, different devices, different operating systems, and different applications are known to produce different results. Different results should not include different streaming rates. But sometimes poop happens. So, be prepared to experiment.

Stuff can change at any given time (sometimes dramatically) without notice. Changes and upgrades will happen down the road. Remember: we are only talking about lossy MP3 filesets. Most MP3s here at the LMA are VBRs.

The difference between the embedded player's streaming and WinAmp's streaming is a software difference. This could lead into a buffering difference. Streaming needs to be buffered correctly. If it is not buffered correctly, you will have interruptions and glitches. Gaps between songs is another issue.

Possibly (is this a stretch?), playing files, caching them, and replaying the same files shortly later is another factor that may affect you. If you are replaying them five minutes later, do they re-stream, or are they played out of your cache? Low-bandwidth internet connections, expensive data plan costs, and Carrier or ISP performance may be impacted.

Client-based players such as WinAmp have many more features than the embedded player. And they have more information about the files being streamed and played. But WinAmp is a s/w application. S/w Media players require d/l, installing, and updating their s/w and their add-ons onto your system.

The embedded player makes "sharing" easy. It supports posting playlists to Facebook and Twitter, and it provides the URL for the embedded code if you want to use it on your web page or blog. The embedded player is built into your browser. You don't need to do anything. It loads into your browser automatically along with your show's web page. It's ready to play your fileset. No d/l and no apps required. "Works well on all devices" is always a requirement. Not so easy to do...

eTree users like myself will use the LMA collection and the embedded player to search, scan, probe, check, evaluate, and consider the status of a show's fileset. It's pure convenience and common sense. If I like the show and it is available for d/l, I will acquire the lossless audio fileset for it. Then I play the lossless files in my WinAmp player.

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Poster: Heckle Date: Oct 3, 2012 6:46am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Streaming/ bandwidth question

Thanks for the replies. Next question: Does streaming a show use much bandwidth - I like to listen to music at work and the IT dept sometimes monitors bandwidth usage and more importantly I want to be mindful of my co-workers because we all access a database on a remote server and use it all day.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffMonte B Cowboy Date: Oct 3, 2012 7:39am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Streaming/ bandwidth question

I do not know which "VBR setting" The Archive's file deriver is using. There are 10 settings available for VBR encoding: 0 is highest quality (least lossy, most b/w); 9 is the lowest quality (most lossy, least b/w). Trader's Little Helper s/w allows users to control their own VBR settings. In theory, you could encode your own VBRs in TLH, set the rates yourself for "optimum", and then upload them to the LMA if your are the Admin for that show. Then you would need to Zip them up manually, and do the other derivatives manually. Trust me, I'm sure no one is doing this. The Archive's file deriver is an excellent feature.

VBR is the abbreviation for Variable Bit Rate. This means the MP3 audio files are using an algorithm with a variable bit rate encoding scheme. Therefore, the bandwidth used during playback will vary accordingly. There is NO constant rate in VBR.

The "LAME" VBR algorithm is here:
http://lame.sourceforge.net/vbr.php

Typically, streaming VBRs may exceed 320 kbits per second during "high resolution" bursts. This may happen many times per minute, or dozens of times per song. On the low end, I'm guessing it's about 160 kbits per second. VBR rates are constantly varying. On average, Grateful Dead music VBR files will stream about 192 kbits per second, give or take.

Another way to go in your case is to d/l VBR Zip files from the LMA at your home. Unzip them on your computer. Load them into your iTunes by creating a Playlist for each show. Then load them onto your old iPod or iPhone. Bring that device to work, and play your VBR MP3 files from the iPod device... Zero Bandwidth used at work.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or Stafftracey pooh Date: Oct 3, 2012 2:42pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Streaming/ bandwidth question

thankfully, we're very open about our processing, here!

so i found the most recently uploaded LMA/etree show and found it's derive task log.

here's the relevant snip

[ PDT: 2012-10-03 13:57:35 ] Executing: /petabox/sw/bin/timeout -s 9 14400 /usr/local/petabox/sw/bin/ffmpeg -v 0 -y -vn -i '/var/tmp/autoclean/derive/bloodkin2012-08-18.flac16_sbd_mk22/bloodkin2012-08-18s2t01.flac' -ac 2 -ar 44100 -f wav - 2>/dev/null |/usr/bin/lame --quiet --disptime 10 --preset standard --ta 'Bloodkin' --tt 'Success Yourself' --tn '12' --tl '2012-08-18 - Haley'\''s 40th Bday Celebration' --add-id3v2 --tc http://archive.org/details/bloodkin2012-08-18.flac16_sbd_mk22 --tv LINK=http://archive.org/details/bloodkin2012-08-18.flac16_sbd_mk22 --ti '/var/tmp/autoclean/derive-bloodkin2012-08-18.flac16_sbd_mk22-MP3/art.jpg' - /var/tmp/autoclean/derive-bloodkin2012-08-18.flac16_sbd_mk22-MP3/tmp.mp3 > /dev/null 2>&1


so we use "lame ... --preset standard ..."

hope that helps!

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Poster: trevtdogg Date: Nov 12, 2012 2:38am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Streaming/ bandwidth question

"so we use lame ... --preset standard ..."

which to fast forward a few years in lame development is the same as a V2 quality VBR mp3 ;)

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Poster: Heckle Date: Oct 3, 2012 4:20am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Streaming/ bandwidth question

Thanks for the replies. Next question: Does streaming a show use much bandwidth - I like to listen to music at work and the IT dept sometimes monitors bandwidth usage and more importantly I want to be mindful of my co-workers because we all access a database on a remote server and use it all day.